Another Sky Press Forums Tag: neo-patronage

Another Sky Press Forums Tag: neo-patronage http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ Another Sky Press Forums Tag: neo-patronage en Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:21:10 +0000 kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-115 Tue, 08 Aug 2006 11:49:41 +0000 kristopher 115@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ santihero wrote:<blockquote> i must admit i'm concerned with the amount of "free access" the internet provides artists. </blockquote> I can understand this fear... but I think it's all going to work out. Case in point: Terra Naomi (<a href="http://www.terranaomi.com">http://www.terranaomi.com</a>). She's got TONS of her music online for free. So much... that's she been ranked the #1 band on myspace. Furthermore, she's got -videos- of most of her songs (just her singing, playing guitar, no fancy effects) on YouTube... all for free. Just sitting there for anyone to watch, free. She sells cds on her website for $10. The reason I know about her, the reason I'm spreading the word right now, is because she put her talent out there for free. And she's good. She used technology and let her talent shine. Now, I don't know her - she might get some big record deal and go on MTV and fly to the moon... but if she wanted to, she's got the fanbase now for a DIY career like Ian MacKaye or Ani DiFranco. That's the important part here - that I know her name because she let me listen (and watch) for free... and grass roots did the rest. santihero wrote:<blockquote> staring at the computer screen, reading a story online, sucks, and can't be compared to holding a physical book in your hands and carrying it around with you. </blockquote> Now THAT, I totally agree with. It is my absolute hope that most people who dig <a href="http://www.anothersky.org/in-print/click-kristopher-young/">Click</a>, buy a copy. It IS better to hold it in your hands. A lot of love and elbow grease went into making that book everything it could be, from storyline to layout to cover - a kind of love that the screen will never convey. But I can't get <a href="http://www.anothersky.org/in-print/click-kristopher-young/">Click</a> on special racks at the front of bookstores like a major publisher can. I can't get ads run in major magazines. I can't 'buy' reviews (nor would I want to). But I can say: I believe in this book. I think it's worth your time. I stand behind it, 100%. And to prove it, I'll even let you read it first. santihero wrote:<blockquote> i'm worried that providing people with free access to literature using the internet may affect books like it has with music. and no, i don't think music downloading is "killing the music industry," or whatever else they claim, but it does affect it, nonetheless. i wouldn't want the same thing to happen to books. </blockquote> I think it has affected music in a positive manner, so I hope so. In fact, I think the internet will Save literature - it's not like the industry was doing a good job - they stopped taking chances years ago and only take on projects they know will make them $$$. But everyone has a shot now. Technology erases barriers of entry; music is a perfect example: compare the cost of making vinyl records to mp3s. I can only wish the evolutionary path was that far along with print/literature... but we're always going to be playing catchup because that's the nature of reading as compared to listening. santihero wrote:<blockquote> people shouldn't be so afraid of asking for money in exchange for art. art is the best thing we spend money on. </blockquote> I completely agree. Free is an unfortunate word. Because while I do think art should be available for 'free'... I also think people need to realize they have to support what they love. Like <a href="http://www.anothersky.org/in-print/click-kristopher-young/">Click</a>? Buy it. Dig an artist like Terra Naomi? Support her. Spread the word. If there is a better word than 'free' to get across this concept, let me know. I'd be all over it. But until then - it IS free... and I trust people will figure out the rest. santihero on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-114 Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:51:58 +0000 santihero 114@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ i must admit i'm concerned with the amount of "free access" the internet provides artists. staring at the computer screen, reading a story online, sucks, and can't be compared to holding a physical book in your hands and carrying it around with you. i'm worried that providing people with free access to literature using the internet may affect books like it has with music. and no, i don't think music downloading is "killing the music industry," or whatever else they claim, but it does affect it, nonetheless. i wouldn't want the same thing to happen to books. people shouldn't be so afraid of asking for money in exchange for art. art is the best thing we spend money on. Private Bob on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-67 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:14:57 +0000 Private Bob 67@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ Yeah, I agree with htmldesign...if the only force that drives art is market forces and at a basic level, money, then artists would be motivated to create things for what I percieve to be the wrong reason. Most great artists create art, in whatever form, for the joy of creating, not for any monetary reasons. I suppose I can only come at this from my own humble perspective. I write a bit if (crappy) poetry, not to compete with Wordsworth or Heaney, but simply because I enjoy creating things that maybe someone somewhere migh enjoy. I'm not sure what you mean by a "competitive product" in relation to art. Surely art should be judged, not on its competitivness, but on its beauty. Yes, artists should be recompensed for their art and if they make a profit, then all the better! But, if you take a look at ASP, writers will publish their works through it in order to be creative...to get their 'product' out to the masses and if they get a p[rofit from it, then it's even better. Well, ASP provides things free and they can be duplicated easily but it also incorporates a way of paying the artist so we get the best of both worlds! Art is available to all for free and if they feel so inclined, the can recompense the atrist. I suppose at heart, I'm kinda Marxist so I believe the whole free-market-economy-and-business-model thang is inherently flawed and should be replaced...but that's a different topic! I'll probably edit this at some point later to make it a bit more coherent... Okay, Kristoper has basically said all that...oh well... ;D kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-65 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:38:40 +0000 kristopher 65@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ dadasays wrote:<blockquote> That is the focus of the various movements such as ASP here or my anti-copyright movement -- finding a way to compensate the artist without using force and monopoly like copyright does. I believe there are many ways for artists to produce content for a profit, we just need to show them the incentives exist. </blockquote> We agree on the necessary end result ("finding a way to compensate the artist without using force") though we get there from completely different directions. Which is great, actually, because the more paths that converge in this direction the better. The creative/cooperative/competition issue is a bit thornier. I don't think artists should necessarily create with competition in mind, but I do think competition comes into play later - people won't support what they don't like... and they shouldn't. But I think perhaps the best way to ensure this is the case is to provide it for 'free' in the first place, leaving the audience to decide what thrives and what doesn't. Thus I agree with both you and htmldesign, for different reasons. kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-64 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:17:14 +0000 kristopher 64@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ Private Bob wrote:<blockquote> Yeah, this model is immense! I know there are hundred of books, movies and cds that I want to read/watch/listen to but I can't afford them all. I occassionally download, but then do feel guilty about not supporting the artist, so this system is ethical and also practical. People get cool stuff and artists are encouraged to create more. </blockquote> Exactly. What's required is an audience that understands that without financial support, artists are crippled. There is a lot about this on the site already. But we don't think there should be a barrier of entry to art. We should be able to experience art for free - but at the same time, there is a certain responsibility to support that which you love. This is unenforceable - it requires trusting the audience... which, Another Sky Press obviously does. kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-63 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:11:20 +0000 kristopher 63@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ dadasays wrote:<blockquote> I don't like the term "free." Content isn't free - it costs something to make, something to market, something to distribute. I prefer the term "fan sponsored." If the fan can't afford to pay financially, the fan can still sponsor the music by telling others about it (or giving them a copy of it to consider). If that new fan likes it, they can sponsor it financially or be expanding the fan tree. </blockquote> I agree that 'content' (art) costs something to make - Click was certainly one hell of an investment of time and energy - and artists need to be able to support themselves in order to focus on their art. It's in everyone's best interest if talented artists are 'fan sponsored' to the point that they can focus on their art without starving to death. That said, the phrase 'fan sponsored' just doesn't have any ring to it. There needs to be a better phrase, something that has both the intended meaning and a certain catchiness to it. It is also my hope that 'fan sponsored' is almost automatic - for example, people like to spread the word about something they love. It feels good to tell someone, hey, read this book, it changed my life. Check out this album, it rocked my world. And hey, it's 'free' to check out... just contribute if you can, and spread the word ('expanding the fan tree'). It's a larger step to pulling out the wallet. We're hoping it's not that large of step - that people see the inherent need to 'support what you love' to their own ability. That those who are wealthier see the value in contributing more to the artists of thier choice to balance out those that can't afford to or chose not to. We sell books at cost on a fairly regular basis - which is, essentially, at a loss since we don't even charge for handling and we include bookmarks and stuff. It's those that go above and beyond that make this possible. Because you are right - art isn't 'free' for the artist. It is time and energy and straight-up money for supplies and food and shelter (and web hosting and...). And it -is- important that people understand this - currently, our hope is that the word 'free' won't confuse them and that most will just 'get it'. htmldesign on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-62 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:25:31 +0000 htmldesign 62@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ I can definitely see where you are coming from... however, if the artists does not have to focus on the competition and continues to create and compete with only themselves, then great works begin to be produced. Focusing entirely on the competition and rat race of production and distribution sometimes forces people into a mindset where all that matters is making a profit. Focus on doing what you love rather than on a way to sell it. I think thats the point of all of this. dadasays on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-56 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:10:55 +0000 dadasays 56@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ Private Bob: I definitely don't agree with that opinion. I don't think art should be "free" for the masses and that we should focus on creativity instead of competition. It is competition that drives people to create -- even the most grounded artist still knows that the only way they'll get attention is by making a competitive product. The artists that disagree are either lying, or just don't care about anything. I believe that art should be profitable, but you have to look at the law of supply and demand from a free market perspective in order to find the best way to profiting. If something is readily available and can be duplicated cheaply or for free, the price will fall to zero. This means a very high supply (near infinite), so demand is irrelevant. How do you make a profit on something that has a free market price near or at zero? That is the focus of the various movements such as ASP here or my anti-copyright movement -- finding a way to compensate the artist without using force and monopoly like copyright does. I believe there are many ways for artists to produce content for a profit, we just need to show them the incentives exist. Private Bob on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-55 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:48:02 +0000 Private Bob 55@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ Yeah, this model is immense! I know there are hundred of books, movies and cds that I want to read/watch/listen to but I can't afford them all. I occassionally download, but then do feel guilty about not supporting the artist, so this system is ethical and also practical. People get cool stuff and artists are encouraged to create more. The whole creative aspect of this project also appeals to me on a huge level, it's very reminiscent of a book called "The Science of Getting Rich", which is also t be found free online here: <a href="http://www.scienceofgettingrich.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.scienceofgettingrich.net/</a> It talks about how everyone should work on a creative plain, not a competeive one. There's more to it, but that's the pertinant bit to it! Another publication which people here may be interested in is a bi-monthly magazine called "Resurgence". It's a magazine that deals with ecological, sociological and economical matters on a very open basis, and I think the philosophy behind it is very similair to the philosophy behind Another Sky Press. htmldesign on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-53 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:13:34 +0000 htmldesign 53@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ my band will give you 500 cds to distribute for "free". Too bad we don't live in portland, or else I would give you CDs today. We already give out cds for free, paying the money for sleeves and blanks out of our pockets. we have a system down, a cd duplicator that can burn 10 cds at a time. I am posting all over this discussion board and will here from you guys real soon Im sure. dadasays on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-50 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:52:41 +0000 dadasays 50@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ I don't like the term "free." Content isn't free - it costs something to make, something to market, something to distribute. I prefer the term "fan sponsored." If the fan can't afford to pay financially, the fan can still sponsor the music by telling others about it (or giving them a copy of it to consider). If that new fan likes it, they can sponsor it financially or be expanding the fan tree. kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-16 Mon, 01 May 2006 14:35:43 +0000 kristopher 16@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ that's the end goal, stephanie. and we're already working on making it happen... if all goes well there should be at least 1 cd worth of kick ass music up on another sky within two weeks. we're also working on a short story compilation by various talented authors across the country (and maybe international?) as well as some other print projects. but yea, i completely relate to not being able to afford a cd. it's simple mathematics - few people can afford all of the cds, books, and films they might otherwise want. for some people, that means they simply go without. others find other ways to get more - libraries, borrowing from friends, downloading... none of which directly support the artist. given the choice between buying a book used and new (for triple the price) most people buy used... forgetting that doing so doesn't benefit the author any more than pirating your favorite new cd does (though it might feel more legit). we're not against buying used stuff - better a copy be in appreciative hands than gathering dust... but there should be a way to easily contribute a few bucks to the author. in my perfect world, you wouldn't need to buy books used because they'd simply be 'passed along', which each new reader contributing to the author if they decided it was appropriate. anyway... yea, check back soon and you might find some cool tracks to listen to while reading Click. msJane on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-13 Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:21:52 +0000 msJane 13@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ I'd like to see all mediums, that can be put in digital format, on this website eventually. Music, visual, video, books... what am I missing here? But especially music - that would be neat to see. When I like a band, I'm soooo willing to contribute - there are several bands I'd love to support, but I can't afford buying their CD. I never go to see local bands because I don't know if I'll like them and I don't want to pay a cover charge without knowing. The website & forum look great, Kristopher. Stephanie kristopher on "Why free?" http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/topic/why-free#post-5 Sat, 08 Apr 2006 18:35:22 +0000 kristopher 5@http://www.anothersky.org/asp/forums/ <a href="http://www.anothersky.org/main/our-beliefs/">http://www.anothersky.org/main/our-beliefs/</a> <a href="http://www.anothersky.org/main/our-beliefs/neo-patronage/">http://www.anothersky.org/main/our-beliefs/neo-patronage/</a> We are trying to do it right.